Jasmine71's Weblog

December 29, 2008

Unbeliever’s soul after death

Unbeliever is one that rejects Christ as their personal LORD and Savior. Read the post on ‘Saving Faith’ for more details on that topic. That said , this post deals with the destination of unbelievers after death. Mankind is superior to other forms of life in that he is an immortal person. Plant life has body; animals have a body and self-consciousness. Mankind has spirit, soul, and body. The soul and spirit makes up the person.
The body is the physical house in which the person dwells while here on earth. The soul is the self consciousness that responds to environment and thoughts, and is the center of the senses – taste, touch, smell, hearing, sight. The spirit is that which can comprehend spiritual things; God-consciousness, conscience.
” I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ” (I Thess 5:23; Heb. 4:12).
The word “death” means separation; it is the separation of the soul and spirit from the body.
Hell
The Bible teaches more about Hell than it does about Heaven. Hell is a location. it is not here on the earth [were humans reside], nor is it a thing of the imagination. Hell is a place of spiritual torment in this age because the bodies of the unbelieving dead are in the grave, Hell is believed to be in the center of the earth. ” The way of life is above to the wise, that he may depart from hell beneath” (Prov. 15:24).
Unbelievers are NOT annihilated after death- they do not cease to exist. They exist in a condition of ruin and conscious separation from God throughout eternity. ” The Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with His mighty angels, in flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: who will be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of His power” (II Thess. 1:7-9). The word destruction does not mean annihilation. You can destroy a piece of paper, but it is not annihilated. Though it is burned and the ashes scattered, the chemical formula still remains. There is no annihilation of anything, including men. To destroy means to “cease from its original capacity: to be ruined.”
“The fire that never shall be quenched: where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched” ( Mark 9: 43, 44). Here the word worm is an old English expression referring to the ” germ of life, ” or the soul. Everlasting destruction is everlasting separation from God in torment.
The question is asked, “But does fire really mean literal fire in connection with Hell?” The Bible often uses the word fire simply as being symbolic or some trial or testing, etc. However, whenever God’s Word is symbolic it usually gives the explanation. In the case of Hell fire, it is never explained to be anything other than literal fire. ” It is better for thee to enter into life halt or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet to be cast into everlasting fire” (Matt. 18: 8).
Others ask the question, “If God is a God of love, how can He create anything so cruel as an eternal Hell?”
Hell was not made for men. It was made for Satan and his angels. But men who disobey God and follow Satan will have to go with [Satan] some day. God is a God of love, and for that reason He provided a Savior for sinners. Those who reject God’s Son and trample under foot the blood of the Son of God cannot hope hope to escape eternal punishment and they deserve it.

The Lake of Fire

There is a difference between Hell in this age and the lake of fire throughout eternity. Those in Hell now are in spiritual torment only, for their bodies are in the grave. After the second resurrection the bodies of the unbelievers will be raised and become spiritual bodies which cannot die or be destroyed. Throughout eternity they will be in physical and spiritual torment in the lake of fire. The Bible does not say just where the lake of fire will be, but of one thing we are sure, it will not be in the center of the earth for God makes a new earth “wherein dwelleth righteousness” (II Peter 3; 13).
But there is no doubt about there being a lake of fire. ” And Satan that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone… and shall be tormented day and night forever and ever… And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death…. The lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death” (Rev. 20:10, 14; 21: 8).

Such versus as these take the frivolity out of the subject of Hell. How many people laugh and say, ” I don’t care if I go to Hell; there’ll be plenty of company there!” There will be plenty of others there, yes. But company, no! There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. it is not good company when everyone is gnashing his teeth. There is no love in Hell, no peace, no hope, no light, no mercy, no friendship; no such words as mother, sweetheart; not even one drop of water! Hell is no laughing matter.
I recommend you read “A Divine Revelation of Hell ” by Mary K. Baxter. The book gives you a very good idea about how horrific your existence will be for all eternity if you reject Jesus as your personal Lord and Savior; and if you do not live a holy and righteous life for Jesus daily.

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30 Comments »

  1. i was suprised to see this on here. Amen! some one with a rational thought on Hell. Most at Church of God demoninations seem to to sidestep this teaching we have. They need to present a better biblical presentation to pursuade us to beleive them over what we know from the Bible already. Im hoping LORD willing to watch those ministries and present them with a hand of repentance if they ask but right now im watching mainly Ronald Weinlands ministry as ive done for months now pretty extensively. God!!! Bless this work were taking as you want all to be saved from the wrath that does abide on those without you!;
    thanks, jairus

    Comment by jairus adams — January 10, 2009 @ 6:23 pm

  2. What will happen to those who never heard and learn the true gospel of Christ? Is it fair to judge them to a thing called “hell”?

    Comment by Mahalia — January 14, 2009 @ 9:26 pm

  3. After hearing the true gospel, most people who reject it ask this question …hmmm. But seriously, God is all knowing. He will get the gospel to people if He knows they will accept it. Plus, being all knowing, HE knows what each person would have decided had they heard the gospel; so He can judge accordingly anyway. He is infinitely beyond our limited understanding .
    So to answer your question…yes it is fair.

    Comment by jasmine71 — January 14, 2009 @ 11:31 pm

  4. God is full of wisdom…. This is the standard by which God judges: lawlessness…. What is lawlessness? It is plainly detailed in the most important “instruction manual” called Holy Bible…

    Comment by Mahalia — January 15, 2009 @ 9:07 am

  5. Mahalia, where are you going with this?… Yes God is full of wisdom and the Bible is the most important ‘instruction manual’ However, the Bible [His Word] will be the standard by which God judges .

    Comment by jasmine71 — January 15, 2009 @ 11:17 pm

  6. You said it right…. Then we go from there…. Remember, God is full of love, wisdom, powers and justice…Fairness and eternal peace emanates from Him…In His time, He will write His Master Plan to everyone’s minds and hearts….and that will be in future time….Perhaps then we can meet and wisely discuss the true meaning of salvation and faith…. Again, in His time….

    Comment by Mahalia — January 16, 2009 @ 6:33 am

  7. Mahalia, Right, but this master plan is for those who have accepted Jesus as their personal LORD and Savior. The true meaning of salvation and faith is this:
    God says that we are saved by faith in the Saviour. To be saved means that we are delivered from the penalty of sin which is eternal Hell, and delivered from the power of Satan’s kingdom now in this present life, and some day will be delivered from the very presence of sin when we get to Heaven.
    Salvation is by faith not by works. “Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ” (Rom. 5:1). “Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us” (Titus 3:5). Nothing that we can do will take away our sin ; we need a Saviour.
    Salvation is the receiving of a Saviour – Someone who will take away our sin and give us a passport to Heaven. Until we receive God’s way of salvation, there is nothing we can do to please Him, ” all our righteousness are as filthy rags” (Isa. 64:6).

    Comment by jasmine71 — January 16, 2009 @ 7:37 am

  8. Well said…. We need Jesus to be united to God…. But God cannot dwell in sins… Once Jesus cleanse us, we should remain clean by keeping God’s laws….or else we can never enter the Kingdom of God….This the is true meaning of salvation..

    Comment by Mahalia — January 16, 2009 @ 9:47 am

  9. “Christians” that do not keep the law [Word of God] never truly received Jesus as Lord and Savior. Once saved God demands we live a holy life…that is true repentance.. There is no such thing as ‘greasy grace’… but holy living is just proof you were sincere when you asked Jesus to save you…. Again, people that do not obey God’s Word were not sincere when asking for salvation (if they claim to be a Christian)… I’m sorry if you disagree but I stand on my beliefs.

    Comment by jasmine71 — January 16, 2009 @ 12:42 pm

  10. ““Christians” that do not keep the law never truly recieved Jesus as Lord and Savior.”

    Jasmine, I think you just caught yourself in your terminology. You’ve made it clear that you believe the Holy days and Sabbath were done away with, therefore you are not keeping God’s law, and I showed you in the book of Acts that Paul still keeps the Sabbath and the Holy Days in the new testament after the death of Christ.

    Comment by randomguy — January 16, 2009 @ 4:48 pm

  11. Randomguy, As per my blog on the Mosaic Law , the Sabbath and Holy days were for the Jews only. Christians need to live holy lives by not actively sinning . These actions are proof you have been born again ,…that the Holy Spirit lives inside you. However, until you accept Jesus as personal Lord and Savior, you can not earn your salvation though good deeds, keeping laws, or observing Holy days. God has to impute His righteousness onto you after HE washes you in the Blood of Jesus… That is why Jesus died on the cross and shed His blood.. He is the sacrificial Lamb. ….. To say you need Jesus + the Law for salvation is LEGALISM ; WHICH IS SPURIOUS THEOLOGY….A DOCTRINE OF DEMONS. … It is such a shame you have bought into the lies of the COG-PKG and Ron Weinland. You knew the Truth and exchanged it for a lie.

    Comment by jasmine71 — January 16, 2009 @ 6:21 pm

  12. Whether keeping God’s laws or not, everyone will be offered the blood of Jesus as a Passover for sins committed and be united with God the Father…..To enter the Kingdom of God, Faith In Christ and Faith of Christ are absolutely essentials….Sins will be abolished and will have no future….Whether you are a radical suicide bomber or a devout pious righteous person, Jesus will offer His Death and Life…. But God gave us the free will to accept or refuse Jesus’ sacrifice to take and examples to follow….Those who BELIEVED AND BEHAVED will have a future in the Kingdom of God….

    Comment by Mahalia — January 17, 2009 @ 3:18 am

  13. Mahalia, once a person has died , it is too late to receive Salvation if they have rejected it in life.

    Comment by jasmine71 — January 17, 2009 @ 10:16 am

  14. Nothing is impossible with God who is wise, loving, just and powerful….The answer is in the Holy Bible….God’s master plan is marvelous…The Ninth Commandment demands then that we come to acknowledge the truth of the Bible first of all. Do you know and believe your Bible?

    To do so, you must come to the place where you recognize that there is an Almighty God who rules the universe. His ways are the only right and true ways to live. Then you must acknowledge and obey the truth when it is revealed to you. This means you become converted to the true God and His ways. To live any other way is to live a lie. It is the worst kind of slavery. Jesus Christ promised: “And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free” (John 8:32). It is vitally important that we base our whole life on the truth.

    Comment by Mahalia — January 17, 2009 @ 12:59 pm

  15. Mahalia, I know and believe the Bible…. The Bible teaches that there are no second chances after death. This fact is God’s decree…. He will not violate a Man’s free will, if the only means of salvation [ that HE offered], is rejected. To believe a man gets a second chance after death is a false doctrine, which is not from the God of the Bible!

    Comment by jasmine71 — January 17, 2009 @ 1:11 pm

  16. In His time, God will give you the TRUTHS…I guess it is not time yet…Those who died years ago, good or bad, who never had a chance to be offered Jesus’ Passover Sacrifice, will be resurrected in the future to be given a chance to know and be offered salvation…. Who knows, your great great ancestors will be among them….I praise and thank God for His LOVE, WISDOM, JUSTICE and POWERS…All I said came from the Holy Bible with the inspiration of the Holy Spirit….

    Comment by Mahalia — January 17, 2009 @ 6:23 pm

  17. Mahalia, you said “Those who died years ago, good or bad, who never had a chance to be offered Jesus’ Passover Sacrifice, will be resurrected in the future to be given a chance to know and be offered salvation…. Who knows, your great great ancestors will be among them” This statement is sheer heresy. The Bible says : Hebrews 9:27 – “And as it is appointed for men ONCE to die,but after this the Judgment.”…

    Comment by jasmine71 — January 17, 2009 @ 9:16 pm

  18. God’s Master Plan is detailed in the Holy Bible…..And the Holy Bible is a coded book….It takes the Holy Spirit to discern and decode the book…..It is truly amazing that Bible ignorance is the hallmark of our time. The Bible remains a bestseller, but few actually read it.Now, most people—even Bible scholars—dissect the Bible by picking out only a few verses, or small parts of verses, to support their own ideas. The entire Bible is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness. There have always been intelligent men who are unstable spiritually and unlearned in true Bible knowledge, willing to publicly attack the Scriptures. No one can come to understand the Bible through human intellect or by human reason alone. We need help—spiritual help. Paul taught: “But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned” (1 Corinthians 2:14). The Bible is spiritual knowledge and must be understood spiritually. The natural, unconverted mind is not capable of understanding the Bible. The very important truths of your Bible must be revealed to you by God. He opens up the human mind to understand His incredible revelation through His Holy Spirit. Jesus Christ stated: “Howbeit when [it], the Spirit of truth, is come, [it]will guide you into all truth: for [it] shall not speak of [it]self; but whatsoever [it] shall hear, that shall [it] speak: and [it] will show you things to come” (John 16:13). The Holy Spirit is not a person but a power direct from God. Without it, Bible understanding cannot be unlocked.

    It seems you have Faith in Christ but you do not have the Faith of Christ…..But there is hope….You will get there….in humility….with God’s grace…

    Comment by Mahalia — January 17, 2009 @ 9:59 pm

  19. Mahalia, Faith in Christ is all you need . —– You are sincere, but do not understand the truth of Salvation as wriiten in the Bible. Reread the blog on ‘Saving Faith’ and the blog on ‘Saving Faith and Good Works’

    Comment by jasmine71 — January 17, 2009 @ 10:35 pm

  20. I read it several times…. but I only believe God… Faith In Christ means acceptance of His sacrifice to cleanse of your past sins…. Faith of Christ means following His enduring lovely examples…. You mentioned it yourself that true salvation comes only if you follow the holy life examples of Jesus….

    Comment by Mahalia — January 18, 2009 @ 9:52 am

  21. Following a Holy Life is only proof that you have obtained Salvation. Salvation comes only through the person of Jesus, Mahalia. You say you only believe God, but you accept the trash of Ron Weinalnd [who is a man by the way] .. How many times do I have to say this? Read the new blog ‘Good works and Saving faith’

    Comment by jasmine71 — January 18, 2009 @ 12:12 pm

  22. As you have mentioned, following Jesus Holy examples is proof that you have accepted Jesus as your Saviour…. Jesus said follow His examples and one of them is keeping God’s ten commandments….which lead to holy life. I believed God and not man….I do not believe YOU…..Ronald Weinland has nothing to do with your blog on Saving Faith… You just mentioned him to me. By the way, thank you for introducing him to me in some odd way and I read his books…. They are interesting….I try to find the positive in those books to bring spiritual growth…. I find them very helpful…. If he bring positive results closer to God, then I shall admire him for that.. If he bring more people to repentance and conversion toward Holy Life, then may God bless him…. That is alll I can offer but I cannot slander anybody’s name. If he is a false prophet, that is between him and God….Again, thank you to you and to Ronald weinland for I learn something from both of you…My faith got stronger…

    Comment by Mahalia — January 18, 2009 @ 1:13 pm

  23. Mahalia and Weinland followers please read the following :

    Although he dances around the subject a bit, Weinland actually teaches the 144,000 are going to become “elohim” — the Hebrew word that is rendered God in our English Bible. Claiming these special believers will become “the God-Kind,” he states that

    “Elohim is the name of the God Family.” (page 206)

    This is an ancient heresy, but since he has removed the divinity of Jesus, and redefined the Holy Spirit as a spiritual power without deity, there’s plenty of room in the godhead for us:

    “Herbert W Armstrong, was given understanding….that God’s Family is not a closed trinity, but instead, it can grow into the billions.” (page 206)

    When you move into the realm of the “truth” put forth by this liar, he claims you will “become” God. Referencing the believer who allows God and His Son to dwell within them, he writes:

    “This spiritual creation continues in spiritual growth until the time it can be born (of spirit) into the Kingdom of God, into the Family of God, becoming Elohim.” (page 228)

    “The 144,000 are referred to as the firstfruits of God’s Family, since they will be the first from among the families of mankind to be resurrected and become God (Elohim)” (page 232)

    Most people who have actually read their Bibles recognize this was exactly the temptation offered by the serpent to Eve in the Garden, if she would only eat the forbidden fruit:

    “For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.” (Genesis 3:5)

    The danger posed by false prophets such as Ronald Weinland is not related to prophecies which fail, it is related to predictions which are fulfilled. The fact is, just about every prophecy teacher on the planet is stating that tribulational events are upon us.

    This means that because we do live in the generation which will see all of the tribulational events described in Bible prophecy fulfilled, when these things come to pass, many will follow deceivers like Ronald Weinland, simply because he declared such things. Conversely, it doesn’t take a prophet to see famine or world economic chaos coming because the mechanisms are plainly visible to those who are knowledgeable in monetary systems and agriculture!

    Worse yet, most believers have been erroneously taught a false prophet is one who misses a prediction, when the Scriptures actually state the opposite:

    “If there arise among you a prophet, or a dreamer of dreams, and giveth thee a sign or a wonder, And the sign or the wonder come to pass, whereof he spake unto thee saying Let us go after other gods, which thou hast not known, and let us serve them; Thou shalt not hearken unto the words of that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams…. (Deuteronomy 13:1-3)

    It’s crucial we see this passage tells us the prophet who pitches “other gods” is a false prophet; and since Jesus Christ is God, anyone who presents a version of Jesus outside of the Scriptural portrait is teaching about another god. The Apostle Paul made the connection when he said

    “for if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached [or] if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, le him be accursed.” (II Corinthians 11:4,Galatians 1:9)

    The bottom line is Ronald Weinland, and the “Church of God” that spawned his demonic book, are deceivers of the first magnitude. In this regard, we would all do well to realize that if you find yourself standing at the throne of God and cast into the Lake of Fire for believing the words in books of this nature, you won’t be able to tell God “But the book was free, so I thought it came from you.”

    – James Lloyd

    Comment by jasmine71 — January 18, 2009 @ 2:53 pm

  24. Jasmine,
    I just have a few questions to understand where you are coming from, because these are the questions that puzzled my mind when I believed in the things you do. Do you believe in a resurrection, or do you believe people are in heaven and hell right now.

    Comment by randomguy — January 18, 2009 @ 7:02 pm

  25. Randomguy, People are in heaven and hell right now; but they are presently without their physical bodies. Believer’s are resurrected at the time of the rapture to be reconstituted with their souls and spirits[in heaven]. ( Those believers who are alive will instantly get glorified bodies when raptured. As a side note , the rapture could happen at any time now. No true child of God will ever go through the Tribulation.) A thousand years later after the 1000 year rule of Christ upon the earth, all unbelievers will be resurrected and reconstituted with their souls and spirits(from Hell) to be sentenced to the Lake of Fire by the LORD.
    Reread the following : There is a difference between Hell in this age and the lake of fire throughout eternity. Those in Hell now are in spiritual torment only, for their bodies are in the grave. After the second resurrection the bodies of the unbelievers will be raised and become spiritual bodies which cannot die or be destroyed. Throughout eternity they will be in physical and spiritual torment in the lake of fire. The Bible does not say just where the lake of fire will be, but of one thing we are sure, it will not be in the center of the earth for God makes a new earth “wherein dwelleth righteousness” (II Peter 3; 13).
    But there is no doubt about there being a lake of fire. ” And Satan that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone… and shall be tormented day and night forever and ever… And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death…. The lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death” (Rev. 20:10, 14; 21: 8).

    Comment by jasmine71 — January 18, 2009 @ 9:22 pm

  26. Thank you for your answer Jasmine, I carefully handpicked verses of the Bible that promote contradiction to your theories. From your answers, it gave me great understanding as to where you’re coming from and why different verses would make sense to both of us according to what we believe. Please carefully read them all, especially the last one.

    John 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

    John 11:24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.

    Acts 17:32 And when they heard of the resurrection of the dead, some mocked: and others said, We will hear thee again of this matter.

    1 Corinthians 15:12 Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead? 13 But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen:

    Acts 24:15 And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the JUST and UNJUST.

    Comment by randomguy — January 18, 2009 @ 10:42 pm

  27. Randomguy, I did say there is a bodily resurrection of the righteous(just) and the lost(unjust)…. You are very, very confused as you have bit into the lies of Ronald Weinland and the COG-PKG….. Re read this blog and my last comment , before this one, a few more times….

    Comment by jasmine71 — January 19, 2009 @ 8:38 am

  28. Ok, you’re entitled to your belief that Im confused. So what happened to all of the people before Christ. And remember, John 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

    Comment by randomguy — January 19, 2009 @ 12:27 pm

  29. Randomguy, Before Jesus went to the cross, believers went to Abraham’s bosom (Paradise). This place was in the center of the earth next to Hell. This was taught by Jesus in the story of the rich man who died and went to Hell; and Lazarus who went to Paradise. After Jesus went to the cross , He took all the believers from Paradise to heaven. Again , currently all people who have died, whether saved or lost are without their bodies. —-I think we need to end it here ,Randomguy, because you are sold out to your own belief system, as am I. .. To keep trying to prove your ‘theology’ is an exercise in sheer futility.

    Comment by jasmine71 — January 19, 2009 @ 6:18 pm

  30. Weinland also subscribes to the doctrine of Soul Sleep, or annihilationism (once again, something Armstrong got from the cult of Adventism and Jehovah’s Witnesses). This is the view that says when you’re dead, your really dead, and your soul or Spirit does not continue until that second life heresy he’s manufactured.

    Although there are many Scriptures which refute this, the most commonly cited verse is Jesus telling the dying thief on the cross

    “Verily I say unto you, today shalt thou be with me in paradise.” (Luke 23:43)

    Comment by jasmine71 — January 20, 2009 @ 6:41 am


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